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Dan Suiter: Dr. Michael Scharf: Welcome again, everyone.

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Dan Suiter: Dr. Michael Scharf is the O.W.

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Dan Suiter: Rawlins Orkin Endowed Chair in Urban Entomology and Molecular Physiology at Purdue University.

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Dan Suiter: He entered Purdue in 1986 as a freshman in agriculture and subsequently earned his BS,

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Dan Suiter: MS, and PhD degrees from Purdue University in 1991, 1993, and 1997.

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Dan Suiter: After graduation, Dr. Scharf spent time at the University of Nebraska and Cornell University

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Dan Suiter: as a postdoc in the University of Florida where he was a tenured professor for several years.

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Dan Suiter: In 2010, Mike returned to Purdue and his primary research interests at Purdue

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Dan Suiter: relate to understanding biochemical and physiological mechanisms

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Dan Suiter: insects that have practical implications for pest management. Welcome Dr. Scharf, the floor is yours.

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Mike Scharf: Thank you very much, Dan. It's really nice to be here today and I definitely appreciate the invite to share some of this information with the urban pest management industry.

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Mike Scharf: So today I'll be talking about just some of the basics of insecticide classification and mode of action for pest management professionals.

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Mike Scharf: And I'll acknowledge right at the outset that this is probably not something that's on everybody's radar screen out there in the industry.

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Mike Scharf: And just one of my goals in this presentation is just to help, even if no matter what your experience level is with pesticides,

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Mike Scharf: just to help raise anyone's level of understanding for how these things work.

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Mike Scharf: So my goal in this presentation is just to, you know, just this one overarching goal

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Mike Scharf: and that's to improve general knowledge of how insecticides work.

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Mike Scharf: So, if you're dealing with a product, you can ask yourself, does this product target

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Mike Scharf: the nervous system of the insect?

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Mike Scharf: And if so, in what way does it target it?

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Mike Scharf: Just maybe you can try to understand that a little better.

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Mike Scharf: Or does the product work in a completely different way like an insect growth regulator?

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Mike Scharf: So that would be very different than an insecticide that would target the nervous system.

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Mike Scharf: These are things I'll get into in a little more depth as I go through this talk.

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Mike Scharf: And so, but knowing how these insecticide tools that we have available, how they actually work,

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Mike Scharf: this is essential knowledge for the industry.

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Mike Scharf: And so why is that?

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Mike Scharf: And so here's just a list of things and these are themes that will come back through the

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Mike Scharf: talk but just to kind of introduce them here and then they'll be reinforced later.

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Mike Scharf: The first is just safety.

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Mike Scharf: So, you know, some insecticide modes of action have lower non-target toxicity than others.

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Mike Scharf: So they affect insects more than they do mammals.

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Mike Scharf: You know, humans are mammals.

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Mike Scharf: And so there's the safety factor.

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Mike Scharf: Understanding how insecticides work can help with interpretation of advertising and trade

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Mike Scharf: literature which isn't always technically accurate so it's good to have a little extra

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Mike Scharf: knowledge so you can interpret that trade literature.

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Mike Scharf: pollinator health is really huge right now.

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Mike Scharf: You know, it's becoming something that we all need to know about in the industry and how to protect pollinators.

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Mike Scharf: Especially with products like nicotinoids that actually, you know, they move around in plants.

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Mike Scharf: And so if you're doing a lawn application, for example, you know, the plants, flowering plants in the yard or the landscape

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Mike Scharf: can take up those nicotinoids and that can affect pollinators.

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Mike Scharf: Resistance management is a really big factor.

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Mike Scharf: Knowing how to rotate products is really important and do other things that can help

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Mike Scharf: get around the resistance problem.

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Mike Scharf: Product sustainability. In the industry we're stewards of, we represent the manufacturers as well as the pest management industry.

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Mike Scharf: And you need to understand that every product, every insecticide product that makes it to the market,

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Mike Scharf: it costs hundreds of millions of dollars, if not more, billions of dollars to get to the market.

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Mike Scharf: And so, you know, using products wisely so they have the longest market life is just, it's good business sense for the whole industry.

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Mike Scharf: Understanding how insecticides work can help design customized pesticide applications for, you know,

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Mike Scharf: And that goes along with situational pest management.

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Mike Scharf: So designing customized applications with the right products for the right situation.

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Mike Scharf: So understanding how insecticides work and how they're formulated really comes into play

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Mike Scharf: with situational pest management.

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Mike Scharf: And then the last one here is just communicating with your customers and explaining to them how products work, but being able to do it in a way that communicates competence that shows that you really understand what you're doing, you're going to be safe, you're going to protect pollinators, etc., etc.

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Mike Scharf: And so, you know, all these things are really important, I feel, and they all go together.

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Mike Scharf: And that's my motivation for putting together this particular talk that I'm going to be giving

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Mike Scharf: here, which I've given now several times over the last five years.

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Mike Scharf: And despite the technical nature of the information, I do get a lot of positive feedback on it.

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Mike Scharf: So hopefully everyone will feel the same today.

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Mike Scharf: So here's an outline of what I'll be presenting.

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Mike Scharf: I'll just get in some, I just covered some background and introductory information.

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Mike Scharf: If we want to know how insecticides work, we need to talk about some of the basics of insect physiology

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Mike Scharf: because that's how insecticides work.

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Mike Scharf: They disrupt the physiological function of the organism that they're targeting.

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Mike Scharf: And that's how they work. That's how they cause deleterious effects in those target organisms.

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Mike Scharf: I'll talk about some basics of insecticides and the modes of action and then talk about

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Mike Scharf: break them up into two different groups: the neurotoxic insecticides and then the non-neurotoxic insecticides.

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Mike Scharf: And then I'll finish with some more of this practical knowledge like the situational pest

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Mike Scharf: management kind of information.

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Mike Scharf: So kind of bringing things, concepts together and talking about factors that affect how well

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Mike Scharf: insecticides work.

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Mike Scharf: So even if you don't follow along with everything in excruciating detail and it's all very new

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Mike Scharf: to you, the information that I'm presenting today, there are two additional sources of

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Mike Scharf: information.

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Mike Scharf: And the first is an article published in 2011 called Insecticide Primer and Insecticide Mode of Action.

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Mike Scharf: This appeared in PCT Magazine.

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Mike Scharf: This was authored by myself and Dan Suiter.

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Mike Scharf: So there's some good supporting information to what I'll be presenting today.

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Mike Scharf: And then over here on the right there's this publication that probably Dan and I, we co-authored that we probably need to revise it soon.

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Mike Scharf: almost 10 years old now, Insecticide Basics for the Pest Management Professional.

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Mike Scharf: And this is available free of charge at this website shown at the bottom, sponsored by

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Mike Scharf: the University of Georgia.

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Mike Scharf: And I'll put these up at the end too in case you don't have time to write down this information

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Mike Scharf: here.

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Mike Scharf: So there's additional information out there that will perfectly go along with the information

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Mike Scharf: I'm presenting here today.

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Mike Scharf: So, starting with insect physiology and just giving a really brief overview.

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Mike Scharf: So, if you were an entomology student like we have here in our department at Purdue University,

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Mike Scharf: so you would take a whole semester course on insect physiology and biochemistry.

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Mike Scharf: I'm not going to cover that whole course today, but I've just compressed it down into a couple of slides here.

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Mike Scharf: And there are just some critical physiological components of insects that is good to know about.

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Mike Scharf: And I'll explain why here in the coming slides, but these are the cuticle, you know, the outer covering of the insect.

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Mike Scharf: The nervous system, which is basically what controls what's going on in the insects.

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Mike Scharf: The same thing happens in mammals and any animal has a nervous system that controls what's going on in the body.

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Mike Scharf: Muscles, of course, control movement and those muscles are controlled by the nervous system.

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Mike Scharf: The digestive system is, you know, that's where things happen, you know, with nutrition

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Mike Scharf: and food that's ingested in the insect and there's this really important idea that, you

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Mike Scharf: know, the inside of the digestive tract is actually the outside of an organism.

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Mike Scharf: So it's kind of like we have this

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Mike Scharf: tube going down the middle of us that's actually outside of our bodies, which is

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Mike Scharf: and that's a barrier to digested insecticides.

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Mike Scharf: We talk about that too and the respiratory system is really important as well.

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Mike Scharf: You know what we're talking about, for example, fumigant insecticides, right?

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Mike Scharf: That's how fumigants actually make it into the insect through the respiratory system.

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Mike Scharf: So just talking about some of these features in more detail, so I've just shown them here, just kind of run through them one by one.

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Mike Scharf: First is the nervous system, and so in every insect, you know, they have the nervous system runs along there.

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Mike Scharf: They have a brain and there's a ganglion that controls their mouth parts and then this ventral nerve cord that runs along

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Mike Scharf: the ventral, the bottom side of their body. That's the central nervous system of the insect and then there are all these peripheral nerves that come out and go throughout the body.

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Mike Scharf: So all our neurotoxic insecticides that we have, you know, they're targeting the nervous system throughout the body like we see here.

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Mike Scharf: The insect cuticle is made up of - it's actually very complex and it's made up of a lot of

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Mike Scharf: different layers and so if we think about insect growth regulators and so they're disrupting

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Mike Scharf: the formation of the cuticle and that can have really

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Mike Scharf: pronounced consequences on the insect, but we just disrupt the subtle nature of the cuticle.

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Mike Scharf: The cuticle is also important because it's a barrier to insecticides.

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Mike Scharf: So, you know, any contact insecticides that an insect picks up in the environment,

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Mike Scharf: they have to make it through all these layers of the cuticle in order to get to the inside where the nervous system is.

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Mike Scharf: Over here is the gut.

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Mike Scharf: So this is a really nice picture from my lab of a termite gut and you can see it's a pretty

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Mike Scharf: complex kind of thing.

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Mike Scharf: And again, here's this tube that goes down the middle of the gut which is actually the

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Mike Scharf: outside of the organism.

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Mike Scharf: exterior. So for example insecticides that would be ingested, you know, they're

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Mike Scharf: they have to penetrate through these barriers of the gut to make it into the

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Mike Scharf: body to affect their target sites. So you know the gut is really complex.

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Mike Scharf: I'm jumping over here to the tracheal system. So, you know, within insects, they're a bit different than humans and other animals in that, you know, the tracheal system is this series of tubes, physical tubes that run through the whole body that bring air from the outside and deliver it to the inside of the

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Mike Scharf: of all the cells within an insect. That's different than animals and mammals like us, for example.

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Mike Scharf: We have lungs, we breathe in the oxygen, we have gas exchange happening in our lungs,

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Mike Scharf: we have hemoglobin that carries all the oxygen around in our bodies.

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Mike Scharf: That's very different than what's actually happening in insects.

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Mike Scharf: Insects have this physical plumbing kind of system with all their trachea.

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Mike Scharf: And then finally down here we have muscles and so muscles are you know what control movement and

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Mike Scharf: responses to stimuli and all these kinds of things and so within the insect they have really complex

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Mike Scharf: really complex muscular system much like our own

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Mike Scharf: and it's controlled by the nervous system of course and we have some new insecticides that

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Mike Scharf: affect the insect

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Mike Scharf: calcium channels in their muscles and this is a really important new mode of

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Mike Scharf: action that we have available that's actually very safe, it's very insect

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Mike Scharf: specific and this would be insecticides like

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Mike Scharf: like chlorantraniliprole or cyan

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Mike Scharf: traniliprole, right, really those words just roll off your tongue don't they?

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Mike Scharf: But those are the, those are insecticides that affect the insect

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Mike Scharf: muscles and they're very insect specific.

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Mike Scharf: It's good to know a little bit about musculature as well.

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Mike Scharf: We talk about this topic.

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Mike Scharf: So, moving on from insect physiology, I next want to move over to insecticides and just some very basic

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Mike Scharf: concepts and then kind of moving towards modes of action which it gets a little more complex as we go on.

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Mike Scharf: But I promise not to get too technical, at least I'll try not to with this.

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Mike Scharf: It's a very technical topic so it's hard not to get too caught up in the technical details.

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Mike Scharf: So just thinking about insecticide classification first.

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Mike Scharf: So insecticides, they have chemical structures that allow them to be classified.

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Mike Scharf: So we can think about, you know, like if we think about all the different insect groups,

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Mike Scharf: they have different kinds of morphology, different forms that allow them to be classified.

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Mike Scharf: classified in the different groups of the different taxonomic groups of the insects like termites and roaches and flies and

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Mike Scharf: you know all the different groups. So here we just have some insecticides listed.

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Mike Scharf: There won't be a quiz over this but you can see if you just look at their structures, they look very different.

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Mike Scharf: They're made up of different elements, you know, different atoms make them up.

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Mike Scharf: And these different structures are what give them different functions and allow them to target different target sites, which I'll talk about next.

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Mike Scharf: But this idea of insecticide class, target site in the insect, and then the mode of action

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Mike Scharf: at that target site. Those are all highly interconnected concepts.

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Mike Scharf: So, and it all comes back to the chemistry, unfortunately.

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Mike Scharf: Chemistry can be a really intimidating topic, but

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Mike Scharf: it all comes back to that. So, I'm not going to get into that too much though, as much as I love structures.

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Mike Scharf: So talking more about target site and mode of action, so we can think about mode of action

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Mike Scharf: as almost like it's like a target site and mode of action.

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Mike Scharf: It's like a key in a lock kind of scenario.

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Mike Scharf: So the insecticide has a very specific structure that allows it to interact with a very specific

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Mike Scharf: target site in the insect.

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Mike Scharf: So it's like a key and a lock.

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Mike Scharf: Only that chemical is going to fit in that target site and then you imagine the lock would

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Mike Scharf: open and that's like the toxicity happening in the insect.

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Mike Scharf: You're disrupting the function of that physiological target site.

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Mike Scharf: And target sites are their actual locations or physiological locations within the insects.

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Mike Scharf: And so, and this is what I'll kind of run through the different insecticide classes here coming up in the next part of this talk

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Mike Scharf: and point out the different physiological locations associated with each.

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Mike Scharf: Of course, I talked about this lock and the key analogy, but in reality, what people who study insecticide mode of action and design new insecticides,

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Mike Scharf: they're thinking in terms of what you see down here at the bottom.

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Mike Scharf: You know, the target side, it's a protein, usually within the insect. It's got three-dimensional structure like the lock.

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Mike Scharf: And the insecticides actually, chemical structures can dock up with that target and, you know, disrupt it.

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Mike Scharf: So it's actually not as, it's way more complex than the key in the lock.

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Mike Scharf: But thanks to modern science we can predict these things very well.

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Mike Scharf: And it's actually very similar to drug discovery and drug design as well.

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Mike Scharf: So really the drug field and the insecticide field have a lot of overlap, believe it or not.

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Mike Scharf: But bringing it back to just these four very basic modes of action of the insecticides.

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Mike Scharf: So target sites are physiological location.

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Mike Scharf: Modes of action are the actions of insecticides at those target sites.

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Mike Scharf: And we can really break it down into four modes of action.

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Mike Scharf: There are only four kinds that occur.

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Mike Scharf: So that would be stimulation or blockage, especially with nerves.

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Mike Scharf: So if you stimulate a nerve, you cause it to fire more rapidly.

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Mike Scharf: And if you block it, you basically shut it off.

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Mike Scharf: So we have pesticides that do both those things.

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Mike Scharf: We have other things that are called modulators, like pyrethroids.

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Mike Scharf: If you know anything about pyrethroids, they're modulators.

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Mike Scharf: So they're binding their target site and just kind of modulating its shape, changing the

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Mike Scharf: subtle ways that it functions by...

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Mike Scharf: by modulating its shape. And then the last one here is inhibition. So we have a lot of

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Mike Scharf: insecticides that actually inhibit certain enzymes in the nervous system like acetylcholinesterase enzymes,

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Mike Scharf: which we may all know about are the target sites of organophosphates.

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Mike Scharf: and carbamates, which I'll talk about too. But we have these just these very four basic

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Mike Scharf: kinds of modes of action and it's very simple actually. So when I'm teaching my toxicology

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Mike Scharf: class at Purdue University, this is just how I kind of lay it out and it's very easy to

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Mike Scharf: understand these concepts when you just recognize there are only four ways that target sites can

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Mike Scharf: be disrupted.

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Mike Scharf: But, that's all I will say about that.

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Mike Scharf: Try not to get too technical here.

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Mike Scharf: So there's another concept which is the concept of the LD50.

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Mike Scharf: And so LD50 is the lethal dose that would kill 50% of your test insect that you're looking at.

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Mike Scharf: So every insecticide has a different LD50 that's unique to that insecticide.

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Mike Scharf: So, you know, not all different insecticides have different dose ranges at which they're effective.

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Mike Scharf: That's just the very nature of the chemistry and the physiology that's going on.

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Mike Scharf: So in general we can say that the relationship between product toxicity and LD50 is inverse.

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Mike Scharf: So the smaller the LD50, the higher the toxicity of a product.

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Mike Scharf: That means, so if an LD50 is small, that means that you only need a small dose to kill half

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Mike Scharf: of your test population.

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Mike Scharf: And over all of it, it's just these insecticides are active at the smaller dose equals greater toxicity.

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Mike Scharf: Insecticides that are more toxic or hazardous have lower LD50s.

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Mike Scharf: Again, that's just reinforcing what I just said.

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Mike Scharf: And insecticides that we have today are actually much more toxic to insects and pests than they are to people and pets.

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Mike Scharf: You know, some by over 10,000 times.

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Mike Scharf: So, that's really amazing if you think about it that, you know, thanks to modern science and advances and technology and human understanding,

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Mike Scharf: we're able to design insecticides today that are, you know,

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Mike Scharf: Some are actually completely safe for mammals.

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Mike Scharf: I'll point out some of these as the talk goes on, but we have insecticide classes like the

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Mike Scharf: diamides which don't have a signal word, if you can imagine that.

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Mike Scharf: So they have their mammalian toxicity is so low that they are not required to have a

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Mike Scharf: signal word.

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Mike Scharf: Although, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't practice safety with them.

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Mike Scharf: Another idea that's connected to this is that only very small amounts of insecticide that are placed in the environment

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Mike Scharf: of the pest actually reach their target site to cause toxicity.

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Mike Scharf: So the ratio is like billions to one, maybe even higher than that of the actual amount of insecticide that goes out in the environment

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Mike Scharf: to what is contacted by the insect and travels through its body to reach the target site and have an effect,

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Mike Scharf: you know, it's only a billion or less of what's actually placed out there.

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Mike Scharf: And a lot of that goes along with the insecticides just being so pest specific.

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Mike Scharf: So, I think we're moving in a really good direction as a whole in terms of being able to have safer products today.

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Mike Scharf: They have high mammalian LD50s and low insect LD50s.

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Mike Scharf: So moving on then to the different insecticide classifications and by mode of action and

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Mike Scharf: different chemistry groups.

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Mike Scharf: We have insecticides that target the nervous system and there are five major classifications here that I'll talk about.

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Mike Scharf: And then we have insecticides that do not target the nervous system.

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Mike Scharf: So if you're just thinking about very broad classifications out there,

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Mike Scharf: you know, we can break them down into things that target the nervous system and things that do not target the nervous system.

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Mike Scharf: And I'll talk about five categories here in the first, five classifications of neurotoxins

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Mike Scharf: and then four classifications of products that are not neurotoxins.

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Mike Scharf: So moving on the first topic of things that are neurotoxins, talk a little bit about the insect nervous system.

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Mike Scharf: So the insect nervous system is made up of millions of nerve cells.

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Mike Scharf: So it's pretty amazing when you think about it.

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Mike Scharf: And these are some images from one of my favorite textbooks from Chapman.

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Mike Scharf: the insect structure and function. So I learned a lot from this book as a student a few years ago.

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Mike Scharf: When you think about nerve cells, this is kind of what they look like and I don't really need to talk about

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Mike Scharf: what's the different classifications of them, but you know,

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Mike Scharf: individual nerve cells are what make up the whole nervous system like we see over here on the right.

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Mike Scharf: And so it's pretty amazing when you think about, so like, you know, hold your arm out

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Mike Scharf: and snap your finger.

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Mike Scharf: And think about the signal traveling through your whole nervous system, how fast that happens

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Mike Scharf: from your brain to the muscles in your finger.

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Mike Scharf: And then, you know, you heard the snap of your finger.

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Mike Scharf: That information traveled back from your ears to your brain.

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Mike Scharf: You know, the nervous system moves at amazing speeds.

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Mike Scharf: Things happen incredibly fast.

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Mike Scharf: it's mind-boggling to think about. So we have all these cells, nerve cells, in the

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Mike Scharf: nervous system that are affected by insecticides. They also control the

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Mike Scharf: function of the nervous system in a really integrated kind of way.

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Mike Scharf: So how does the nervous system actually work?

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Mike Scharf: Again, try not to get too technical here because this is not a neurobiology course,

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Mike Scharf: but we can say that information travels through the nervous system in the form of electrical impulses.

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Mike Scharf: So these impulses are moving at the speed of light, basically.

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Mike Scharf: Think about that analogy of snapping your fingers and that signal moving at the speed of light down a neuron.

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Mike Scharf: So this is electrical energy moving down a nerve cell.

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Mike Scharf: And then, so remember the nervous system is composed of millions of cells and there are gaps between these cells called synapses.

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Mike Scharf: So that's what this would be here in the middle, this gap between two neurons.

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Mike Scharf: And so the electrical information, when it reaches the end of a nerve cell, then it becomes

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Mike Scharf: chemical information in the form of a neurotransmitter that will cross that gap.

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Mike Scharf: And those neurotransmitters bind a receptor on the other side and those are very specific to the different kinds of neurotransmitters.

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Mike Scharf: And then instantly, you know, at the speed of light that becomes electrical information again moving down the next neuron.

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Mike Scharf: So we have impulses that move in the form of electricity.

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Mike Scharf: through nerves and then those impulses cross gaps in the form of chemical

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Mike Scharf: messengers called neurotransmitters and those neurotransmitters bind receptors

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Mike Scharf: that carry the information to the next neuron. And again this is all happening

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Mike Scharf: at the speed of light. So pretty fascinating.

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Mike Scharf: So, you know, in my lab, we study insecticide effects on the insect nervous system.

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Mike Scharf: So, how do we do that?

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Mike Scharf: We use a neurophysiology system, which is pretty fun and informative.

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Mike Scharf: You can do really good science with this kind of approach.

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Mike Scharf: And so here's an example of this is an American cockroach that's been dissected

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Mike Scharf: open by one of my students who has really good hands, hands of a surgeon as we joke

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Mike Scharf: and say. And you can see right here this is the ventral nerve cord of the American

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Mike Scharf: cockroach. And all these little squiggly lines here, those are the trachea I mentioned.

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Mike Scharf: That's the those are the breathing tubes. You can't really see the nerve, but it's right down here in the middle.

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Mike Scharf: And we can stick an electrode onto that neuron and then a nerve cord and

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Mike Scharf: measure the electrical activity doing that. So this is an example of kind of like baseline activity.

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Mike Scharf: This is five minutes of recording. This is just the nerve kind of, you know, the insect obviously is dissected open and the nerves firing away.

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Mike Scharf: for five minutes and then if you apply an insecticide like Fipronil,

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Mike Scharf: so Fipronil causes neuroexcitation.

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Mike Scharf: You can see here's an example then of what happens to the nerve

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Mike Scharf: after that. It's firing at a much more rapid rate

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Mike Scharf: and with a higher magnitude of intensity.

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Mike Scharf: And so we can, you can look at the nerves and you can see these effects very clearly with neurotoxins, which is, you can see what is happening.

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Mike Scharf: So it's really informative and I think this kind of graphic really helps to bring it home and show some of the physiology that's going on.

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Mike Scharf: So moving along to insecticides that target sites in the nervous system, so I'm going to talk about these and the insecticides that affect them. So sodium channels, chloride channels,

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Mike Scharf: Acetylcholine receptors, need this acetylcholinesterase enzyme and then we'll talk about combination

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Mike Scharf: products that target multiple locations at once.

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Mike Scharf: We have a lot more combination products available to us now and so it's good to understand how

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Mike Scharf: they work in collaboration.

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Mike Scharf: So here are some of the target sites in the nervous system and I don't want to get into

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Mike Scharf: this too much.

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Mike Scharf: This is a little bit technical but the next couple of slides I throw up here, those are

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Mike Scharf: going to be available in some of the supplementary material that I showed you at the beginning

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Mike Scharf: of the talk and I'll mention.

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Mike Scharf: get at the end. But these are just, this is just a, I'm trying to show here where

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Mike Scharf: the different target sites are on neurons. And so we have chloride channels

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Mike Scharf: here which are at the, they occur after the synapse right here. So the GABA receptor

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Mike Scharf: and the glutamate receptor are actually chloride channels.

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Mike Scharf: Here's the acetylcholine receptor. It's actually a sodium channel.

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Mike Scharf: Let's sodium into neurons. Not to be confused with these other things called

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Mike Scharf: sodium channels. You realize that can be really confusing.

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Mike Scharf: But it's so these sodium channels that are on the axon

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Mike Scharf: of the nerve, the long skinny part of it, these are the actual on switch

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Mike Scharf: for a nerve cell. So pyrethroids target these sodium channels.

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Mike Scharf: Here's a, again, here's a synapse, the acetylcholine receptor is here.

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Mike Scharf: Here's acetylcholine, which is a neurotransmitter that will cross that synapse and bind the acetylcholine receptor.

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Mike Scharf: And over here then you can imagine this would be a muscle that would be controlled by these nerves.

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Mike Scharf: And we have calcium channels that control muscle contraction that are targeted.

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Mike Scharf: Those are the targets of diamide insecticides that I'll be talking about too.

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Mike Scharf: So all these different, I guess the main point here is that these different physiological target sites

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Mike Scharf: appear on different locations of the nerves.

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Mike Scharf: They're doing different things for the natural function of the nerves.

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Mike Scharf: So the insecticides, when they disrupt them, they'll have different effects that we can

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Mike Scharf: see.

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Mike Scharf: And again, this is just a more maybe too technical information.

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Mike Scharf: The top part is the previous slide showing the different

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Mike Scharf: different channels, chloride, sodium, etc., acetylcholine.

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Mike Scharf: And these down here in the bottom, these are the insecticides that are affecting these different locations.

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Mike Scharf: So, phenylpyrazole like fipronil affect chloride channels,

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Mike Scharf: avermectins affect glutamate chloride channels,

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Mike Scharf: Neonicotinoids and spinosyns affect the acetylcholine receptor,

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Mike Scharf: pyrethrins and pyrethroids and

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Mike Scharf: Indoxacarb affect these axon sodium channels,

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Mike Scharf: diamides affect muscular calcium channels, etc.

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Mike Scharf: I'll get into these in more detail, but this is just kind of a roadmap

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Mike Scharf: showing you the different physiological locations of the target sites and then the insecticide

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Mike Scharf: classes that affect them.

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Mike Scharf: And again, you can reference this information in some of the handouts that I'll show at the

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Mike Scharf: end.

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Mike Scharf: So first off is the actual sodium channel insecticides that I want to talk about here.

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Mike Scharf: So these sodium channels again, they're on the axon of the nerve.

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Mike Scharf: So they're on this long skinny part of the nerve and they're really the on switch for the neuron.

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Mike Scharf: You know when they open, nerve impulses move in the form of electricity are moving down the nerve.

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Mike Scharf: So we have pyrethroids and also DDT and pyrethrins are in this category too.

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Mike Scharf: They stimulate sodium channels and cause excitation, so they'll cause that nerve

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Mike Scharf: to fire which causes the insect to, I'm sure everybody has seen insects, for example, treated with pyrethrins.

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Mike Scharf: They get knocked down right away. So that's that incoordination of their nervous system caused by that hyper excitation from their sodium channels being stimulated.

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Mike Scharf: We have oxodiazines, so this is indoxacarb, you know, really big urban insecticides that we have.

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Mike Scharf: They affect, indoxacarb affects the sodium channel but it blocks it.

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Mike Scharf: So it works in a completely different way, causes inhibition and then the insect is actually paralyzed

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Mike Scharf: because its sodium channels don't work, you know, the on switch is stuck in the off position basically.

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Mike Scharf: We also have a new newer insecticide called metaflumizone, which is a

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Mike Scharf: semicarbazone. This could be, I know there are ectoparasite uses for this

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Mike Scharf: product and possibly some other urban product uses as well. It also blocks

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Mike Scharf: sodium channels. So we can, at sodium channels we can stimulate them or block

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Mike Scharf: them depending on the different insecticide chemistries.

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Mike Scharf: Moving along to chloride channels, so chloride channels are located along the neuron and they

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Mike Scharf: cause chloride to flow into neurons which actually mellows them out.

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Mike Scharf: So chloride has a negative charge that kind of brings down the activity of the neuron under

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Mike Scharf: natural conditions.

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Mike Scharf: But we have one of our biggest insecticides in the urban market is

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Mike Scharf: Fipronil. Everybody knows that I'm sure. It's not actually off patent now. There's

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Mike Scharf: a lot of consumer products that have Fipronil in them as well now.

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Mike Scharf: Fipronil blocks the chloride channel so you're blocking this mellowing effect

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Mike Scharf: which leads to excitation. And remember that nerve recording picture I showed you

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Mike Scharf: You can see like we can apply fipronil and very quickly we can see the excitation happening in the nervous system.

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Mike Scharf: So we also have the Isoxazolines, this is a new word for me, this new class of insecticides has a lot of

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Mike Scharf: anti-parasitic uses especially on pet products.

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Mike Scharf: Names here are fluralaner and sarolaner.

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Mike Scharf: So this could be really big in the flea market, these products.

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Mike Scharf: It's good to know because vets are prescribing these things.

378
00:35:33,500 --> 00:35:38,620
Mike Scharf: They're out there in probably really good quantities and they compete with Fipronil so

379
00:35:38,740 --> 00:35:41,320
Mike Scharf: that we can see some cross-resistance issues between them.

380
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:46,420
Mike Scharf: these two. So something to keep an eye on. These are still really new products but

381
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:52,760
Mike Scharf: something to think about. Again those cause excitation. We also have the

382
00:35:53,660 --> 00:35:59,920
Mike Scharf: avermectins like abamectin, like a really good gel bait active ingredient that we have currently.

383
00:36:02,859 --> 00:36:07,500
Mike Scharf: Abamectin stimulates the chloride channels which leads to inhibition so that actually

384
00:36:08,460 --> 00:36:09,540
Mike Scharf: paralyzes the insect.

385
00:36:09,550 --> 00:36:13,960
Mike Scharf: It has the opposite effect of what fipronil would have even though they're both affecting

386
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:16,079
Mike Scharf: the same target site basically.

387
00:36:16,290 --> 00:36:17,800
Mike Scharf: They just do it in opposite ways.

388
00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:24,600
Mike Scharf: Moving along to acetylcholine receptor insecticides.

389
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,560
Mike Scharf: So remember here we have one neuron with the electrical impulse traveling along it.

390
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:36,500
Mike Scharf: We have a synapse here and then we have another downstream neuron as we would say in the business.

391
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,740
Mike Scharf: And so here's the synapse.

392
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:46,120
Mike Scharf: So acetylcholine is a neurotransmitter that crosses that synapse to bind its receptor on

393
00:36:46,180 --> 00:36:46,780
Mike Scharf: the next neuron.

394
00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:54,360
Mike Scharf: And so we have our mainly the nicotinoids, you know the huge market share right now with these products.

395
00:36:54,770 --> 00:37:02,260
Mike Scharf: They're affecting the acetylcholine receptor by stimulating it and causing kind of excitation in the insect.

396
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:10,460
Mike Scharf: And so we also have a new class called the sulfoximines or sulfoxaflor.

397
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,000
Mike Scharf: It's a new product you may be seeing.

398
00:37:12,580 --> 00:37:17,560
Mike Scharf: It acts at the same target site and probably spinosyns maybe for those working in the landscape

399
00:37:17,850 --> 00:37:26,080
Mike Scharf: market have heard of spinosad and it basically affects the acetylcholine receptor in the same

400
00:37:26,260 --> 00:37:26,380
Mike Scharf: way.

401
00:37:28,420 --> 00:37:34,600
Mike Scharf: We also have the acetylcholinesterase inhibitors so they're acting to inhibit acetylcholine

402
00:37:35,460 --> 00:37:40,140
Mike Scharf: and that's the organophosphates and the carbamates which we probably, anybody who's been in the

403
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,520
Mike Scharf: industry a long time knows these products really well.

404
00:37:43,860 --> 00:37:48,900
Mike Scharf: They inhibit acetylcholinesterase and that causes excitation. This is not a

405
00:37:49,060 --> 00:37:53,940
Mike Scharf: really insect specific target site. You know these things work equally well

406
00:37:54,290 --> 00:37:58,660
Mike Scharf: against humans and mammals and so we have a lot of restrictions on these kinds

407
00:37:58,660 --> 00:38:01,280
Mike Scharf: of products for a good reason.

408
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:09,640
Mike Scharf: So, next moving along to the combination products, so I think it's really important to talk about

409
00:38:09,860 --> 00:38:11,620
Mike Scharf: these so I've thrown them in here.

410
00:38:12,380 --> 00:38:15,680
Mike Scharf: All of our combination products that we have, they all start with tea.

411
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,960
Mike Scharf: I'm not going to name them here because I get confused really quickly because I'm sure

412
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,240
Mike Scharf: that's part of the logic in naming them all with tea.

413
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,320
Mike Scharf: But they combine nicotinoids and pyrethroids.

414
00:38:27,839 --> 00:38:34,720
Mike Scharf: And so, and they cause this effect called potentiation, which is actually hitting two target sites at once.

415
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:38,940
Mike Scharf: So you get this synergy, this one plus one equals three kind of effect.

416
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,480
Mike Scharf: So again, the nicotinoids target the acetylcholine receptor.

417
00:38:43,380 --> 00:38:47,900
Mike Scharf: then the pyrethroids that are in these combo products affect the sodium channels.

418
00:38:48,220 --> 00:38:55,100
Mike Scharf: So affecting two target sites at once gives this added kind of effect. So these

419
00:38:55,180 --> 00:39:00,500
Mike Scharf: products generally work I think but you know just like anything they're not

420
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,040
Mike Scharf: immune to having resistance in the pest to them. Important to keep in mind.

421
00:39:07,060 --> 00:39:11,360
Mike Scharf: So, that was the, I talked about things that targeted the nervous system there.

422
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:16,980
Mike Scharf: Now I want to quickly go through things that affect target sites outside the nervous system.

423
00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:26,160
Mike Scharf: And so, these are the muscular calcium channels, talk about insect growth regulators here, inhibitors

424
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,100
Mike Scharf: of energy production, and then the cuticle dehydrating dust last.

425
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,780
Mike Scharf: So hopefully everybody is following along with that.

426
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:49,720
Mike Scharf: If I'm going too quickly, I'll take a little pause here and maybe we can just take a little breather and maybe if anybody has any questions, you can let Dan know those through the chat box.

427
00:39:50,540 --> 00:39:55,240
Mike Scharf: But otherwise, I'll just try to keep forging ahead here and keep us on track.

428
00:39:55,520 --> 00:40:00,720
Mike Scharf: So again, moving on to insecticides that act outside the nervous system.

429
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,460
Mike Scharf: So the first one here is the muscular calcium channels.

430
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,300
Mike Scharf: And so again this is where, so we have a nerve that's meeting up with a muscle.

431
00:40:13,579 --> 00:40:17,660
Mike Scharf: So it's a muscle that's controlled by a nerve, they're all controlled by nerves.

432
00:40:18,300 --> 00:40:22,760
Mike Scharf: And we have these neuromuscular calcium channels that occur right at these locations.

433
00:40:23,020 --> 00:40:26,860
Mike Scharf: And when calcium comes out of them, that causes muscles to contract.

434
00:40:27,060 --> 00:40:27,820
Mike Scharf: So it's that simple.

435
00:40:28,100 --> 00:40:30,600
Mike Scharf: Calcium equals muscle contraction.

436
00:40:31,740 --> 00:40:35,000
Mike Scharf: And so these products we have here are the diamides.

437
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:41,680
Mike Scharf: So we have chlorantraniliprole and now cyantraniliprole and probably there are others on the way too.

438
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:48,960
Mike Scharf: What these things do is they stimulate the neuromuscular calcium channel and that causes that muscle to contract

439
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:55,580
Mike Scharf: for a few hours and then it burns up all its energy and then it's inhibited and the insect just kind of is

440
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,220
Mike Scharf: kind of laying there in a paralyzed state for a few days until

441
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,280
Mike Scharf: all its energy is burned up and it eventually dies, sadly.

442
00:41:04,020 --> 00:41:13,600
Mike Scharf: And so these products are actually so safe for mammals that no signal words were required by the EPA initially.

443
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:22,140
Mike Scharf: Now the manufacturers did a really smart thing in this case and said no, we're going to give them a caution signal word still, which I think is very wise.

444
00:41:23,260 --> 00:41:30,320
Mike Scharf: But these products are pretty safe. But that doesn't mean you should not follow safety guidelines when using them as well.

445
00:41:31,180 --> 00:41:41,880
Mike Scharf: So that's the muscular calcium channel toxins. And talking next about insect growth regulators, so, you know, insects as we all know,

446
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:48,300
Mike Scharf: they have outer exoskeletons and they undergo metamorphosis. And we have different kinds of

447
00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:53,040
Mike Scharf: development that insects go through. You know they have the ametabolous

448
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:58,000
Mike Scharf: development where the older insects look just like the younger ones except

449
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,720
Mike Scharf: they're just bigger. We have incomplete metamorphosis,

450
00:42:02,540 --> 00:42:06,240
Mike Scharf: hemimetabolous insects like grasshoppers and roaches and termites.

451
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:16,540
Mike Scharf: where the really the only difference between adults and juveniles is that adults have wings and they're reproductively competent and the juveniles are not.

452
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:27,480
Mike Scharf: And then we have complete metamorphosis like in mosquitoes and flies and caterpillars and those kinds of things where, you know, the immatures are larvae that don't really look anything like the adult.

453
00:42:28,540 --> 00:42:45,740
Mike Scharf: And so my point in showing these is there's a lot of intricate changes that are going on in the insect cuticle as they move through development and that's all controlled by hormones and chitin synthesis enzymes that synthesize the chitin in the exoskeleton.

454
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:52,720
Mike Scharf: So, you know, insect development is really intricate and so as an insect is going from

455
00:42:52,940 --> 00:42:58,660
Mike Scharf: egg to adult, there are all these different hormones that are changing their concentrations

456
00:42:59,320 --> 00:42:59,859
Mike Scharf: in the insect.

457
00:43:03,059 --> 00:43:07,400
Mike Scharf: You know, and that's what's controlling and some are occurring together and some are occurring alone.

458
00:43:08,579 --> 00:43:10,940
Mike Scharf: And that's what controls these really subtle changes.

459
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:19,460
Mike Scharf: And then eventually they bolt and this is a really nice set of photos of an alate termite that has just emerged by one of my former students.

460
00:43:20,500 --> 00:43:28,119
Mike Scharf: You can see like they emerge and they have to expand their wings and their structures and they have to shed their old skin effectively.

461
00:43:29,020 --> 00:43:31,740
Mike Scharf: And then they can become a normal adult eventually.

462
00:43:32,789 --> 00:43:35,240
Mike Scharf: They darken up over time too.

463
00:43:35,710 --> 00:43:37,059
Mike Scharf: Their cuticle gets tanned.

464
00:43:37,109 --> 00:43:43,579
Mike Scharf: So lots of hormones here acting in concert that can be disrupted for insect control purposes.

465
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,260
Mike Scharf: And that's where the insect growth regulators come into play.

466
00:43:48,050 --> 00:43:53,100
Mike Scharf: We have the juvenile hormone analogs and the chitin synthesis inhibitors.

467
00:43:53,260 --> 00:43:56,040
Mike Scharf: Those are the two big ones that we have in the urban market.

468
00:43:57,100 --> 00:44:02,360
Mike Scharf: Juvenile hormone analogs, they mimic juvenile hormone and this leads to cuticle deformation

469
00:44:03,180 --> 00:44:05,580
Mike Scharf: and actually extra juvenile stages which

470
00:44:06,180 --> 00:44:12,740
Mike Scharf: You know if you have juveniles that can't mate that can cause the population to crash so that's part of the strategy there.

471
00:44:13,540 --> 00:44:17,040
Mike Scharf: With IGRs like pyriproxyfen for example,

472
00:44:17,620 --> 00:44:20,680
Mike Scharf: we see you can see this wing twist happening in

473
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,080
Mike Scharf: insects as they like cockroaches especially as they move through development.

474
00:44:25,180 --> 00:44:29,300
Mike Scharf: So if you go into a new account and you see individuals with wing twist and

475
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:36,340
Mike Scharf: you can put good money down on the fact that IGRs are in that population

476
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:42,340
Mike Scharf: affecting it. So you may not want to use them continuously with thinking of potential resistance issues.

477
00:44:42,510 --> 00:44:46,660
Mike Scharf: It might be okay to use a different product when you see wing twist in the population.

478
00:44:48,140 --> 00:44:55,060
Mike Scharf: Chitin synthesis inhibitors, they inhibit the enzyme that causes the cuticle to form in the insect

479
00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:01,620
Mike Scharf: as it's going through the molting process and chitin synthesis inhibitors can lead to death during molting.

480
00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:08,720
Mike Scharf: Some of the effects like you can see in termites treated with chitin synthesis inhibitors is they show this jackknife effect

481
00:45:08,860 --> 00:45:13,960
Mike Scharf: even well after they're done molting and this is from their cuticle being malformed.

482
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,560
Mike Scharf: So that's how those things work.

483
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:24,140
Mike Scharf: And inhibitors of energy production, a lot of products here, I don't want to get into

484
00:45:24,150 --> 00:45:29,880
Mike Scharf: them too much, but these things all target the mitochondria, which that's like the energy

485
00:45:31,140 --> 00:45:39,880
Mike Scharf: in all cells of all organisms, plants, animals, insects, whatever, fish, bacteria, you know, everybody's got mitochondria

486
00:45:40,780 --> 00:45:49,820
Mike Scharf: and there's this thing called respiration happening here and different kinds of toxins are affecting different parts of the respiratory chain.

487
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:56,560
Mike Scharf: as we call it and I don't want to get into that in too much detail because there's a lot of different things going on here.

488
00:45:56,720 --> 00:46:00,200
Mike Scharf: But some of the products you may be familiar with are hydramethylnon,

489
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:02,480
Mike Scharf: you know, it's a cockroach bait,

490
00:46:03,740 --> 00:46:07,840
Mike Scharf: chlorfenapyr, that's like, you know, a good product that we have. It's got a food label.

491
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:09,160
Mike Scharf: It's pretty safe.

492
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:18,460
Mike Scharf: Fumigants like sulfuryl fluoride and others, methyl bromide, they inhibit mitochondria.

493
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:25,540
Mike Scharf: And wood treatments like disodium octaborate tetrahydrate, DSOBTH, that actually

494
00:46:26,580 --> 00:46:33,120
Mike Scharf: can affect insect respiration and boric acid is very similar also affects

495
00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:37,220
Mike Scharf: insect respiration by disrupting this process. Although there's evidence also

496
00:46:37,420 --> 00:46:44,080
Mike Scharf: that boric acid can be abrasive, be like a desiccant and disrupt the actual gut

497
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:44,420
Mike Scharf: lining.

498
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:49,680
Mike Scharf: So those are the inhibitors of energy production.

499
00:46:50,100 --> 00:46:55,760
Mike Scharf: And lastly, so congratulations, we've made it to the last mode of action here.

500
00:46:56,340 --> 00:47:00,200
Mike Scharf: We have the cuticle dehydrating dusts and it's pretty simple what they do.

501
00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:07,300
Mike Scharf: Here we have silica gel and diatomaceous earth which are just basically finely ground glass powder.

502
00:47:07,980 --> 00:47:13,820
Mike Scharf: And those, you know, so on the outside of the insect surface there's this really fine waxy oily layer.

503
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,800
Mike Scharf: that helps protect the insect from water loss basically.

504
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,780
Mike Scharf: So these things, they abrade the cuticle,

505
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:26,100
Mike Scharf: they break it down, which leads to water loss in the insect and

506
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:30,220
Mike Scharf: lethargy, for example. So you just can look at them and see they're not

507
00:47:30,380 --> 00:47:32,180
Mike Scharf: happy after they've been exposed to these things.

508
00:47:32,980 --> 00:47:39,760
Mike Scharf: And we have diatomaceous earth which mainly contains silicon, that's the big active ingredient

509
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:48,380
Mike Scharf: here which actually comes from the ground exoskeletons of diatoms which are organisms that have silicon

510
00:47:48,580 --> 00:47:50,740
Mike Scharf: in their outer exoskeleton.

511
00:47:51,220 --> 00:47:53,360
Mike Scharf: So it's a major source for these things.

512
00:47:54,340 --> 00:48:01,800
Mike Scharf: So that's how the dehydrating dust works. So I know that was really like a whirlwind tour of the different modes of action.

513
00:48:02,420 --> 00:48:09,300
Mike Scharf: But again, just trying to give you some basic information that you could follow up on later if you really wanted to.

514
00:48:09,380 --> 00:48:13,300
Mike Scharf: And again, I'll put up some references at the end that you can go to.

515
00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:20,579
Mike Scharf: So the last part of the talk here, so kind of coming down the home stretch, there

516
00:48:20,579 --> 00:48:26,980
Mike Scharf: are several factors that affect how well insecticides work. And so, and I just

517
00:48:27,140 --> 00:48:32,079
Mike Scharf: broke these down into stability and persistence, formulations,

518
00:48:33,060 --> 00:48:36,420
Mike Scharf: pest behavior, sanitation, and resistance.

519
00:48:36,830 --> 00:48:40,160
Mike Scharf: So this is where like you know the toxicology of the insecticides

520
00:48:40,900 --> 00:48:43,800
Mike Scharf: comes into practice in these various areas.

521
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,820
Mike Scharf: So on the topic of stability and persistence

522
00:48:50,390 --> 00:48:53,220
Mike Scharf: we know that so most insecticides are oily

523
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:56,860
Mike Scharf: in nature which helps them across the cuticle

524
00:48:57,340 --> 00:49:00,880
Mike Scharf: and membranes and reach their target sites within the insects.

525
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,780
Mike Scharf: So, you know, if we think about we put oil and water, what happens?

526
00:49:06,050 --> 00:49:09,480
Mike Scharf: The two things partition in the phases. Usually the oil will float on top.

527
00:49:10,090 --> 00:49:13,280
Mike Scharf: And that's really the same thing that happens with a lot of our insecticides.

528
00:49:13,460 --> 00:49:18,760
Mike Scharf: They're very oily by their very nature. But unfortunately, in their pure raw form,

529
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:25,940
Mike Scharf: You know, insecticides not only would they be unsafe, but also they can degrade rapidly in UV light.

530
00:49:26,170 --> 00:49:29,980
Mike Scharf: So ultraviolet light can break them down and they can be lost in the environment.

531
00:49:30,410 --> 00:49:35,920
Mike Scharf: So even though they don't dissolve in water, they can move with water and end up, you know, going,

532
00:49:36,940 --> 00:49:42,360
Mike Scharf: end up moving to places where you didn't apply them. So that's why we have formulations.

533
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:49,220
Mike Scharf: And formulations are complex mixtures of the active ingredient, inert ingredients, and/or

534
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,160
Mike Scharf: food attractants and stabilizers in the form of baits, for example.

535
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:59,420
Mike Scharf: And these things, they enhance the stability and extend the longevity of the insecticide.

536
00:49:59,700 --> 00:50:04,700
Mike Scharf: They enhance safety, they make the product easier to handle or mix, and they keep the

537
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,700
Mike Scharf: active ingredient dissolved in water effectively.

538
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:15,260
Mike Scharf: And so some of our different formulations, which I'm sure everybody out there who is actually working in the industry on a day-to-day basis,

539
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,520
Mike Scharf: you know these things really intricately well, intimately well.

540
00:50:21,020 --> 00:50:28,279
Mike Scharf: We have our bait insecticides, granulars, dusts, aerosols, fumigants, and then liquids.

541
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,900
Mike Scharf: Of course, you know, we have all these different...

542
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:34,200
Mike Scharf: forms that the insecticide will come in like the emulsifiable concentrate,

543
00:50:34,940 --> 00:50:39,020
Mike Scharf: wettable powder, microencapsulated, suspension concentrate, etc.

544
00:50:40,579 --> 00:50:46,740
Mike Scharf: So these are the formulations are physical factors, physical things that are added

545
00:50:46,809 --> 00:50:52,819
Mike Scharf: that are mixed with the insecticide active ingredient to help deliver it and make it safer

546
00:50:53,260 --> 00:50:54,559
Mike Scharf: and dissolve in water, etc.

547
00:50:55,069 --> 00:50:58,760
Mike Scharf: So we have to have formulations to make insecticides work.

548
00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:09,360
Mike Scharf: Another really interesting thing to think about is how pest behavior can impact how insecticides work.

549
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:17,720
Mike Scharf: So, and I just have three examples here, but I'm sure people who are out there working in the field and observing things can

550
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:23,900
Mike Scharf: can have other things to add here, but like with cockroaches we have secondary and tertiary kill.

551
00:51:24,290 --> 00:51:30,920
Mike Scharf: So, you know, if we have a cockroach that eats a bait and it either excretes,

552
00:51:31,310 --> 00:51:37,980
Mike Scharf: you know, some of the bait in its excrement or it's dead and another roach feeds on it or another roach eats its feces,

553
00:51:38,420 --> 00:51:42,480
Mike Scharf: We can have secondary kill and even tertiary kill.

554
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:47,339
Mike Scharf: It's even been shown that insecticides can pass through the digestive tracts of two roaches

555
00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:53,619
Mike Scharf: and if a third roach eats the feces from the second roach, it can still be affected in a tertiary way.

556
00:51:54,279 --> 00:51:55,160
Mike Scharf: That's pretty fascinating.

557
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:07,360
Mike Scharf: We have flea larvae that can be exposed to insecticides from their host, like a dog or a cat that's treated with a product that you would get from a vet, for example.

558
00:52:08,380 --> 00:52:17,840
Mike Scharf: And the adult fleas will defecate out the insecticide and the mature fleas in the vetting material will eat the feces of the adults.

559
00:52:18,100 --> 00:52:19,580
Mike Scharf: You know, it's how they get some of their nutrition.

560
00:52:20,380 --> 00:52:27,540
Mike Scharf: And so they can be secondarily affected by insecticides through their behaviors, their natural behaviors that can be exploited.

561
00:52:29,140 --> 00:52:36,120
Mike Scharf: And then another factor, I'm sure Dave Oi will talk about this a little bit in the next talk, social insects like termites and ants

562
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:40,840
Mike Scharf: practice trophallaxis and allogrooming. So you know they're spreading food

563
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:45,300
Mike Scharf: materials from both ends from the mouth and the anus side. They're sharing

564
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,180
Mike Scharf: materials. They're also grooming each other and this can be a great way for

565
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:54,340
Mike Scharf: insecticides to move from individual to individual. So typically we want slow

566
00:52:54,620 --> 00:52:58,640
Mike Scharf: acting insecticides in these kinds of situations in order to affect the

567
00:52:58,830 --> 00:53:01,440
Mike Scharf: maximum number of individuals in a population.

568
00:53:04,579 --> 00:53:08,220
Mike Scharf: Briefly here, sanitation, we all know it's really important.

569
00:53:10,579 --> 00:53:17,099
Mike Scharf: Despite today's insecticides being mostly pest specific and even have very selective toxicity to insects,

570
00:53:17,420 --> 00:53:19,640
Mike Scharf: poor sanitation always makes them less effective.

571
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:26,119
Mike Scharf: So this is where the IPM mindset really comes into play to help make insecticides more effective.

572
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,340
Mike Scharf: Excess food in an account will compete with bait.

573
00:53:31,740 --> 00:53:32,980
Mike Scharf: You know, that's pretty logical.

574
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:39,020
Mike Scharf: If we can eliminate that competing food, we can get the more bait to be eaten by the pests

575
00:53:39,020 --> 00:53:39,760
Mike Scharf: we're trying to target.

576
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,320
Mike Scharf: Clutter creates excess harborage that can't be treated.

577
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:50,640
Mike Scharf: We've all been in that mega cockroach account that maybe looks like the top here where everything

578
00:53:50,660 --> 00:53:54,200
Mike Scharf: is moving and you certainly, you know, we can't treat all that surface.

579
00:53:54,580 --> 00:53:55,920
Mike Scharf: You know, legally we can't.

580
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,799
Mike Scharf: treated and so that's a problem.

581
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,160
Mike Scharf: And dirt and grease tie up insecticides too.

582
00:54:02,279 --> 00:54:08,980
Mike Scharf: So this is an extreme case here in the bottom but the insecticide is going to be less effective

583
00:54:09,099 --> 00:54:09,760
Mike Scharf: in that environment.

584
00:54:10,039 --> 00:54:11,140
Mike Scharf: Absolutely no question.

585
00:54:11,559 --> 00:54:16,460
Mike Scharf: So this is where the IPM mindset comes into play with making insecticides more effective.

586
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,600
Mike Scharf: Another important factor here is resistance.

587
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:25,680
Mike Scharf: So this is where kind of toxicology interfaces with practice

588
00:54:26,340 --> 00:54:30,460
Mike Scharf: in a really big way. This is something I study, maybe I'm most well known for

589
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:34,720
Mike Scharf: working on insecticide resistance. I would argue that

590
00:54:35,140 --> 00:54:38,060
Mike Scharf: resistance is probably the number one cause of callbacks

591
00:54:38,240 --> 00:54:39,260
Mike Scharf: in cockroach accounts.

592
00:54:40,099 --> 00:54:43,800
Mike Scharf: Some of the things we've seen in recent years are just amazing, even with baits.

593
00:54:45,339 --> 00:54:50,680
Mike Scharf: We've seen cockroaches that can eat bait as their only food source for a month and survive.

594
00:54:51,369 --> 00:54:53,240
Mike Scharf: So, pretty mind-boggling.

595
00:54:54,550 --> 00:54:58,760
Mike Scharf: You know, bedbugs, pyrethroid resistance is widespread, we know that.

596
00:55:00,420 --> 00:55:05,520
Mike Scharf: But there's also newer evidence of resistance to other active ingredients.

597
00:55:05,660 --> 00:55:11,640
Mike Scharf: Not picking on chlorfenapyr here, but the potential is there for resistance to not only this active ingredient,

598
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:13,599
Mike Scharf: but to nicotinoids as well as others.

599
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:16,640
Mike Scharf: It's just a really big problem.

600
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:23,480
Mike Scharf: The pests are always adapting with resistance and we have to figure out how to stay ahead of it to have our products keep working.

601
00:55:23,860 --> 00:55:29,640
Mike Scharf: One way to do that is product rotation, it seems to be key for long-term success.

602
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:37,560
Mike Scharf: And even with mixture products, so those mixture products that start with tea that combine two active ingredients,

603
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:43,560
Mike Scharf: we even need to use those in rotation so I've learned, so we've learned.

604
00:55:43,820 --> 00:55:48,620
Mike Scharf: This is a typical rotation scheme that we've been recommending for years for cockroaches.

605
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:55,280
Mike Scharf: Every three months switch active ingredients, maybe even every month if you can do it.

606
00:55:55,700 --> 00:56:02,280
Mike Scharf: But we've also learned that it depends on the active ingredients you're using too.

607
00:56:02,780 --> 00:56:09,100
Mike Scharf: Not all active ingredients are going to be compatible and unfortunately the science is really lacking here.

608
00:56:09,140 --> 00:56:10,820
Mike Scharf: We hope to publish some papers soon.

609
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:17,020
Mike Scharf: showing how which products would work the best in combination in rotations.

610
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:26,000
Mike Scharf: But that information is still evolving and it's something definitely I would encourage the industry to be paying attention to and asking for

611
00:56:27,380 --> 00:56:28,880
Mike Scharf: in the coming months and years.

612
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,440
Mike Scharf: So that kind of brings me down the home stretch.

613
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:40,140
Mike Scharf: My summary points here are insect physiology provides unique insecticide target sites, but

614
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:42,140
Mike Scharf: also creates penetration barriers.

615
00:56:43,710 --> 00:56:49,460
Mike Scharf: I talked about five classifications of neurotoxic insecticides, so just try to keep that in mind

616
00:56:49,540 --> 00:56:50,260
Mike Scharf: that there are five.

617
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,700
Mike Scharf: and you can follow up on what they are on your own time.

618
00:56:54,420 --> 00:56:59,579
Mike Scharf: And then with non-neurotoxic insecticides, there are four classifications here that we

619
00:56:59,640 --> 00:56:59,920
Mike Scharf: have.

620
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:06,240
Mike Scharf: So if you know what these nine classes are, as a technician or a technical manager, you

621
00:57:06,299 --> 00:57:10,660
Mike Scharf: will be able to communicate this to your customers better and maybe communicate more competence

622
00:57:11,279 --> 00:57:12,640
Mike Scharf: and also maybe be more effective.

623
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:19,640
Mike Scharf: pest management. I'm sure he will be more effective. And lastly insecticide

624
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,779
Mike Scharf: chemistry interacts with other factors like behavior and resistance and

625
00:57:23,980 --> 00:57:31,240
Mike Scharf: sanitation that impact both insecticide use and efficacy. So again big take-home

626
00:57:31,299 --> 00:57:35,740
Mike Scharf: message here, increasing your knowledge in all these areas can make you a better

627
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,079
Mike Scharf: pest manager. I'm completely sure of it.

628
00:57:38,620 --> 00:57:43,840
Mike Scharf: So with that, I'll thank you for your attention and I'll put up this very last slide here.

629
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:50,260
Mike Scharf: This is the two additional sources of information that you can go to for supporting information

630
00:57:50,370 --> 00:57:51,480
Mike Scharf: of what I presented here today.

631
00:57:51,810 --> 00:57:52,840
Mike Scharf: So thanks very much.

632
00:57:53,780 --> 00:57:55,280
Dan Suiter: All right, very good stuff, Mike.

633
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:03,560
Dan Suiter: You commented on resistance there at the end. I think we may have to have you back for a webinar on resistance.

634
00:58:03,740 --> 00:58:08,840
Dan Suiter: Did you ever give a resistance webinar, Mike, in the past several years or was it always a mode of action?

635
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:13,700
Mike Scharf: I did. I did give one on bedbugs and roaches. We've got more information now.

636
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,940
Dan Suiter: Okay. Well, I'll see you in Denver. I might have to hit you up on that.

637
00:58:19,640 --> 00:58:24,420
Dan Suiter: on a something for next year, but we did have a there are a few really good questions that came in Mike

638
00:58:24,500 --> 00:58:29,220
Dan Suiter: I'll kind of go through those. I don't know if we'll have time to get to all of them, but I had one question here on

639
00:58:29,700 --> 00:58:35,900
Dan Suiter: combination products that since we're using combination products at lower doses, do we risk the potential of

640
00:58:36,780 --> 00:58:38,520
Dan Suiter: resistance to two chemistries at once?

641
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:45,119
Mike Scharf: I would say even though the manufacturers don't want to hear it, I would say yes.

642
00:58:46,540 --> 00:58:52,619
Mike Scharf: We've seen evidence of resistance to both active ingredients in select roach populations.

643
00:58:53,740 --> 00:58:59,020
Mike Scharf: Roaches that are resistant to both nicotinoids and pyrethroids and that affects the product

644
00:58:59,280 --> 00:58:59,480
Mike Scharf: performance.

645
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:00,900
Mike Scharf: So yes.

646
00:59:02,060 --> 00:59:06,300
Dan Suiter: Is it a fair statement, Mike, that just...

647
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:10,820
Dan Suiter: The development of resistance is kind of inevitable with overuse of an active

648
00:59:11,020 --> 00:59:16,020
Dan Suiter: ingredient would you? Is that the inevitability of resistance?

649
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:23,880
Mike Scharf: Absolutely. You know I try not to pick on products because I think that

650
00:59:24,180 --> 00:59:30,040
Mike Scharf: resistance is possible to any product and we've seen it and so it's just it's

651
00:59:30,070 --> 00:59:31,500
Mike Scharf: all a matter of

652
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:39,020
Mike Scharf: appropriate use for lengths of time and intensities of selection. So it's

653
00:59:39,090 --> 00:59:44,840
Dan Suiter: possible always. Yeah, I guess that's what that resistance management

654
00:59:48,500 --> 00:59:50,140
Dan Suiter: ideas you were talking about are so important.

655
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:51,560
Dan Suiter: It really is.

656
00:59:52,140 --> 00:59:52,240
Dan Suiter: Yeah.

657
00:59:53,700 --> 00:59:54,660
Dan Suiter: I had a question here.

658
00:59:54,900 --> 00:59:55,860
Dan Suiter: This is my question here.

659
00:59:56,620 --> 01:00:00,160
Dan Suiter: Talk about the flow of new active ingredients into the pest control industry.

660
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:05,160
Dan Suiter: It seems that over the years things have kind of slowed down and the industry is kind of

661
01:00:05,860 --> 01:00:07,440
Dan Suiter: generic heavy at this point.

662
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,660
Dan Suiter: What's the horizon for new active ingredients that are coming into the industry?

663
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,860
Dan Suiter: Do the big manufacturers, do they all have active ingredients that they're working on?

664
01:00:19,220 --> 01:00:21,600
Dan Suiter: Will we see new actives that are coming into the market?

665
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:28,640
Mike Scharf: Well, a lot of it depends on economics, of course, and I think all of our manufacturers

666
01:00:28,760 --> 01:00:35,200
Mike Scharf: have lots of things in the pipeline, it's just a matter of them to be able to

667
01:00:35,660 --> 01:00:40,020
Mike Scharf: you know get it into the market and have it be able to it's got to make money

668
01:00:40,470 --> 01:00:46,980
Mike Scharf: You know the markets got to be right and so they they're very careful about how they move things and get them into the market

669
01:00:47,329 --> 01:00:54,500
Mike Scharf: I think it's an expensive process. It is yes, and we have to remember the urban slice of the pie is

670
01:00:55,070 --> 01:00:58,320
Mike Scharf: you know it's not as big as agriculture and so

671
01:01:00,260 --> 01:01:07,260
Mike Scharf: This is just where we need a voice and need to keep after the manufacturers to let them know we need these things.

672
01:01:05,050 --> 01:01:05,180
Mike Scharf: I

673
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:11,800
Dan Suiter: I had a question here about chlorantraniliprole, Mike.

674
01:01:12,390 --> 01:01:15,000
Dan Suiter: Would it have an effect on nonvertebrates like earthworms?

675
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:27,500
Mike Scharf: That's a good question. I would suspect it probably does, but the way the labeling is, possibly not as much.

676
01:01:27,940 --> 01:01:34,119
Mike Scharf: It's a really unique molecule in terms of being super selective for even certain insect groups.

677
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:39,859
Mike Scharf: It's possible there's some selectivity, I just haven't seen that info.

678
01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:46,240
Dan Suiter: Yeah. How about the IRAC? You didn't mention, this wasn't really a resistance talk,

679
01:01:46,300 --> 01:01:49,920
Dan Suiter: but can you mention IRAC and what that is for the audience?

680
01:01:50,780 --> 01:01:55,260
Mike Scharf: Yeah, IRAC is I-R-A-C, the Insecticide Resistance Action Committee.

681
01:01:55,660 --> 01:02:01,760
Mike Scharf: And that's, so all of our manufacturers have representatives who are part of IRAC globally.

682
01:02:02,700 --> 01:02:10,560
Mike Scharf: and they come up with different mode of action classifications that can help you decide how to rotate products.

683
01:02:10,990 --> 01:02:21,360
Mike Scharf: And so if you Google IRAC, I don't have their exact web address in front of me, but they have a really nice thing that they update

684
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:29,599
Mike Scharf: once or twice a year with all the different chemistries available. So you can see the whole landscape of active ingredients available and

685
01:02:30,119 --> 01:02:36,099
Mike Scharf: you can get help there for choosing different modes of action to rotate through. That's one of their main functions.

686
01:02:38,260 --> 01:02:42,100
Dan Suiter: Another question here, Mike, you had talked about nicotinoid insecticides.

687
01:02:43,310 --> 01:02:45,520
Dan Suiter: One of the operators was familiar with the neonic.

688
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,660
Dan Suiter: Is there a difference between the nicotinoids and the neonicotinoids?

689
01:02:50,340 --> 01:02:52,340
Mike Scharf: I think it's just terminology.

690
01:02:54,240 --> 01:03:01,460
Mike Scharf: They're pretty much so the nicotinoids look more like nicotine, which is what they were patterned after and

691
01:03:02,030 --> 01:03:11,100
Mike Scharf: then the neonicotinoids kind of they've evolved. They don't really look like nicotine anymore physically, but they still affect the acetylcholine receptor. Like

692
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,540
Mike Scharf: Clothianidin is a neonicotinoid, whereas

693
01:03:15,540 --> 01:03:19,960
Dan Suiter: imidacloprid is a nicotinoid. I see. So nicotine is an insecticide.

694
01:03:20,580 --> 01:03:28,680
Mike Scharf: Absolutely. We can talk about what happened the first time we chewed tobacco or smoked a cigarette way back as teenagers.

695
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:38,040
Dan Suiter: Yeah, I remember somebody at Purdue used to chew tobacco and put it inside of a jar and then put some caterpillars in there and it would kill them.

696
01:03:39,660 --> 01:03:41,080
Mike Scharf: It's dangerous stuff.

697
01:03:42,860 --> 01:03:57,780
Dan Suiter: Let's see here. Could you comment on the difference between the toxicity between, say you took the same active ingredient, it's typically more toxic via an oral route of entry, correct? As opposed to a contact toxicity?

698
01:03:58,440 --> 01:03:58,640
Mike Scharf: Right.

699
01:03:59,220 --> 01:04:08,520
Mike Scharf: So yeah, all insecticides are going to be almost in all cases more active by ingestion than they are by dermal exposure.

700
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:09,980
Dan Suiter: And why is that?

701
01:04:11,580 --> 01:04:18,860
Mike Scharf: Well in terms of the insect, you know the cuticle, their outer cuticle, it's waterproof and it's got lots of layers.

702
01:04:19,859 --> 01:04:28,359
Mike Scharf: Whereas if you look at the gut, you know, I showed that picture of the gut, it's just the thin, the gut is a thin layer of cells and stuff as opposed to the cuticle.

703
01:04:29,119 --> 01:04:35,760
Mike Scharf: And in mammals, you know, our skin is an incredibly resistant barrier to insecticide.

704
01:04:35,820 --> 01:04:43,060
Mike Scharf: and toxins so just things are always more active by ingestion. And the final

705
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:48,480
Dan Suiter: question here Mike and this is I think somewhat of a loaded question it the

706
01:04:48,620 --> 01:04:52,900
Dan Suiter: difference between repellent and non-repellent insecticides I don't I

707
01:04:53,020 --> 01:04:56,900
Dan Suiter: don't know that it's really that simple somebody here wants information on where

708
01:04:56,900 --> 01:04:58,060
Dan Suiter: they could go to find

709
01:04:58,680 --> 01:05:02,599
Dan Suiter: insecticides that are repellent and others that are non-repellent. Is it that simple?

710
01:05:04,140 --> 01:05:09,240
Mike Scharf: I think probably in the trade magazines. I'm thinking back to when the

711
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,839
Mike Scharf: non-repellent termiticides first hit the market 15 years ago.

712
01:05:14,319 --> 01:05:18,559
Mike Scharf: There was a lot of talk about that and I think the real distinction there is

713
01:05:18,700 --> 01:05:25,180
Mike Scharf: pyrethroids and everything else. Pyrethroids are like pepper spray to insects.

714
01:05:26,020 --> 01:05:30,400
Mike Scharf: All our other actives are not detected nearly as much.

715
01:05:30,740 --> 01:05:30,920
Dan Suiter: Yeah.

716
01:05:32,110 --> 01:05:34,260
Dan Suiter: I have one final question here, Mike, before we let you go.

717
01:05:35,710 --> 01:05:41,000
Dan Suiter: So the essential oils seem to have really, you know, the whole green revolution here over

718
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:49,040
Dan Suiter: the past several years has really kind of taken off in terms of use of 25B exempt actives,

719
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,800
Dan Suiter: you know, rosemary and spearmint and cedar, that kind of thing.

720
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:52,200
Dan Suiter: Right.

721
01:05:52,250 --> 01:05:54,100
Dan Suiter: Can you comment on kind of...

722
01:05:54,320 --> 01:06:00,040
Dan Suiter: Have any ideas on why that's happening in terms of, I guess you don't have the registration

723
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,440
Dan Suiter: cost for one thing, but there seems to be a lot of products that have a lot of those

724
01:06:04,660 --> 01:06:05,520
Dan Suiter: essential oils in them now.

725
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:07,780
Mike Scharf: Right, well, consumers want them.

726
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:12,820
Mike Scharf: You know, the customers are, they have the ability to learn about these things more and,

727
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:19,320
Mike Scharf: you know, so there's the demand, I think, is what, probably what it comes down to.

728
01:06:20,619 --> 01:06:21,920
Mike Scharf: They can be effective.

729
01:06:22,410 --> 01:06:23,660
Dan Suiter: Yeah, they're very good repellents.

730
01:06:23,660 --> 01:06:25,020
Dan Suiter: We've done a lot of work with them on ants.

731
01:06:25,030 --> 01:06:25,859
Dan Suiter: They're very repellent.

732
01:06:26,300 --> 01:06:26,740
Mike Scharf: Right.

733
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:29,060
Mike Scharf: They smell nice sometimes.

734
01:06:31,140 --> 01:06:33,680
Mike Scharf: You get aromatherapy in combination with...

735
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:33,760
Dan Suiter: Yeah.

736
01:06:34,550 --> 01:06:36,200
Dan Suiter: Your house can smell like a peppermint candy.

737
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:42,820
Dan Suiter: I think that's about it Mike we really appreciate this I've seen this is

738
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:47,000
Dan Suiter: something the industry just doesn't get enough of it's a and you really have put

739
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:51,980
Dan Suiter: this together nicely it's from from A to Z here it's really nice so we appreciate

740
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,900
Dan Suiter: your time and thanks everybody for paying attention again don't log out

741
01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:01,260
Dan Suiter: we're gonna take a five-minute break now and get ready for ants and appreciate it

742
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:06,220
Dan Suiter: Mike and we'll see in a couple weeks yeah thanks Dan thank you everybody

